[Mission] Waterlogged - Cryodoom

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Mission name: Cryodoom
Map: mvm_waterlogged_rc4g
Difficulty: Advanced

-Mudun - Making the mission
-Pillow - Map Creator
-Many authors - Made the icons

Attached Files
.zip   cryodoom.zip (Size: 145.2 KB / Downloads: 17)
Wave 1: -Replaced Conch Soldiers with Normal Soldiers
             -Increased WaitBetweenSpawns on Pyros from 5 to 7
Wave 2: -Increased WaitBeforeStarting on Black Boxes from 14 to 19
wave 5: -Decreased TotalCount of Shotguns from 48 to 40
            -Decreased MaxActive of Soldiers from 9 to 6

Attached Files
.pop   mvm_waterlogged_rc4g_adv_cryodoom.pop (Size: 39.03 KB / Downloads: 6)
Judges present: Averagegamer, eyes, Skin king

Class comp
scout (eyes)
soldier (Averagegamer)
pyro (scarlett) i.e mo
engineer (skin king)

Demo https://us-testing.moonlight.tf:27105/de...38.dem.zip

- Earlier waves felt more difficult compared to later waves as by wave 4 onwards the mission felt easier.
- It should also be noted that there can be mixed results with how waves can feel depending on which path the bots take for e.g if the bomb path is the same as where the gate is it makes the waves feel alot easier since you can defend both bomb and gate as opposed to if the bomb path was different to where the gates are the team would be more spread out.

wave 2:
- make the G pyros with G meds wfad as the 2nd final subwave (particularly the gatebot G soldier) can blend in with the final subwave

wave 3:
- boss subwave didn't feel like much was happening compared to the later subwaves although rspec did stall the boss pretty well
- reduce heavies max active to 8
- remove krit meds from the g blast soldiers

wave 4:
- The hyper black boxes did a lot of knockback due to having no dmg penalty. Replace them with normal black boxes or or other close range bots that deal similar damage
- remove one pair of the g soldiers and g demo as they kinda dragged out the wave a bit once the hyper black boxes were dead

wave 5:
- the wave felt alright however (aside from the first subwave) it didn't really feel like a finale as it felt more like an average pre-finale wave
Wave 2
-Giant Pyro is now WFAD with WaitBeforeStarting 0
Wave 3
-Payout decreased from 1000 to 900
-Increased Furies Spawncount from 3 to 6, Increased WaitBetweenSpawns from 6 to 8
-Maxactive of Heavies reduced from 10 to 8
-Removed Kritz Medics from Giant Blast Soldiers
Wave 4
-Payout decreased from 900 to 800
-Decreased damage of Hyper Black Boxes from 1 to 0.66
-Removed 1 pair of Giant Burst Demos and Giant Rapid Soldiers
-Decreased Samurais WaitBeforeStarting from 10 to 6
Wave 5
-Payout decreased from 1000 to 800
-Added 5 Giant Burst Fire DH Conch Soldiers
-Giant Heavy is now WFAD with WaitBeforeStarting 0

Attached Files
.pop   mvm_waterlogged_rc4g_adv_cryodoom.pop (Size: 40.88 KB / Downloads: 7)
*No Strike, but it was pretty close*

Judges present: eyes, Skin King, Package O' Lies
Class Comp:
Scout (Package)
Pyro (eyes)
Heavy (Skin)
Engineer (Gregarious)

Demo: https://us-testing.moonlight.tf:27107/de...79.dem.zip

Overall: Waterlogged is a *shit* map. So like, whenever you make another mission, just, try to pick a not terrible map? It has several issues, being extremely open, with weird and janky pathing. I know it can be hard to find good maps that aren't already extremely overused but, there's bad maps that despite being bad, aren't complete dogshit. Downpour is extremely unbalanced, but at least instead of being bad because it is incredibly aids to defend, it is bad because it is too easy to defend.
Now, while we're on waterlogged, don't spam hitscan, & especially don't spam high AI hitscan.
Make sure Sniper missions have DesiredCount 2 at most.

Wave 1:
- These Steel Gauntlets simply don't need to be pushers. Make them normal Steels.
- Change the Burst Fire Demomen into regular Demomen.
- Don't use hard AI Pyros on early waves like this, even if they cannot airblast, they're still Pyros, and they're still hard AI
- This is wave 1. On 1300 credits. On waterlogged. Turn the randomchoiced normal AI gatebot scouts into randomchoiced easy AI gatebot scouts.
- I'd recommend turning the last 4 UMeds into Bigheals.

Wave 3:
- You don't need these Giant Blast Soldiers. Giant Blast Soldiers have super quick reload speed, no rocket speed changes, and are just really unfun to fight against. Especially since this is waterlogged, where people will be knocked up into the skybox 90% of the time by these. Either remove them, or change them to Giant Rapid Fire Soldiers.
- 42 Heavies + 20 Buff Banner Soldiers + Giant Blast Soldiers is way too much. Hitscan spam, with Buff Banner robots is terribly unfun. Especially in waterlogged.
- Remove the slow-down effect from the Giant Pyros. It's unfun and they don't need it. There's also the fact that afterburn also applies slow-down.

Wave 4:
- You're sending crit Armored Sandman Scouts with 30 Direct Hit Soldiers. Either change the Giant Heater Heavies to not flank, or really nerf the main spawn robots so it's easier to split the team in two.
- Then you have 45 crit normal AI Scouts. Again, this is terrible for this map, especially with all the support they come with. Change them into a different robot.
- The Hyper Black Boxes just aren't fun robots. Their thing is supposed to be they last long and tank damage, not kill people with 3 rockets to the face. You can change them to a different robot of similar power.
- Don't use samurai demomen as support, please. Change them to a different robot and make them spawn more often.
- Make the Sydney Snipers be Normal AI Snipers.

Wave 5:
- Jumping Sandman Scouts are not fun to fight. Just make them regular Super Scouts or regular Sandman Scouts.
- Again, Giant slow-down Pyros. Change them to a different robot.
- You don't need all those Backup robots. They're unfun to fight, and really don't make it that much harder. Change them to something else.
- The finale dragged out a ton. You should turn those Giant Heavies into a Giant Soldier of similar strength (crit colonels for example), remove their Giant Medics, and make them all spawn in quick succession.
[Image: image.png]
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2023, 10:53 PM by eyes6526.)
Wave 1
-Replaced Steel Gauntlet Pushers with Steel Gauntlets
-Lowered Gatebot Scouts Skill from Normal to Easy

Wave 3
-Boss has now DisableDodge Attribute
-Replaced Buff Soldiers with Normal Soldiers

Wave 4
-Increased WaitBeforeStarting on Scouts from 18 to 21
-Replaced Gauntlets with Crit Minigiant Rapid Fire Demomen
-Decreased TotalCount of Scouts from 45 to 40
-Replaced Hyper Black Boxes with Burst Soldiers

Wave 5
-DesiredCount of Sniper decreased from 3 to 2
-Removed Direct Hit from Giant Burst Fire Conch Soldiers
-Removed 1 pair of Giant Heavy with Giant Kritzkrieg Medic
-Replaced the Piercing Rapid Fire Huntsmen with Rapid Fire Huntsmen

Attached Files
.pop   mvm_waterlogged_rc4g_adv_cryodoom.pop (Size: 43.34 KB / Downloads: 5)
DEMO: https://us-testing.moonlight.tf:27107/de...45.dem.zip

No strike

Judges Present:
Skin King
Averagegamer (Spectator)

Team Comp:
Pyro (Stock)

MiniGiant Huntsmen sometimes took the stairs as well as some non gatebot soldiers, if its intentional then let it be as it is

Strip off crits from demos and make scouts easy ai as this subwave was pretty huge difficulty spike on that wave.
Wave 1
-Increased MaxActive of Giant Boxing Heavies with Uber Medics from 4 to 6
-Increased WaitBetweenSpawns from 20 to 28

Wave 3
-Made Soldiers not able to take stairs (Huntsmen are intentional)

Wave 4
-Removed Crits from Rapid Fire Demos
-Lowered Skill on Scouts from Normal to Easy

Attached Files
.pop   mvm_waterlogged_rc4g_adv_cryodoom.pop (Size: 43.32 KB / Downloads: 11)
Judges present:
Package O' Lies
Quantum Apple

Team comp:
Scout (Me)
Huntsman (You)
Engineer (Quantum Apple)
Soldier (Package O' Lies)


Demo: https://eu-testing.moonlight.tf:27107/de...45.dem.zip

The mission had 3 main issues that made the mission a little bit annoying to play.
1) Map choice. Waterlogged is a map that has 2 gates that are badly placed and used and simply causing a lot of desynchronisation.
Not only that, but the map is awfully big and open in most areas, but very chokey in areas such as 1st gate or the front flank, making some bots much more frightening that usual.
As the cherry on top, the map has nav issues that just cause bots to get lost and fuck around, causing the waves to last longer than they should.
A suggestion is to port the mission onto Madhattan.

2) Over-variety of bots. Some variety is good, because it adds more "taste" to the mission. Too much stuff leads to everything blending together. There are many different bots, but many of them end up fulfilling similar roles, making them feel redundant.

3) Pacing issues. Every wave seemed to drag for one reason or another.

Hard AI pyros on w1. The issue is that simply, their (very effective) area denial is just unavoidable due to the amount that was used and having no cash to outlive it. I’d suggest making them Easy/Normal.

The wave dragged a lot. Adjust your WBS, MA, WFAD and other stuff to not have players waiting for giants to slowly come out.
Useless melee boss. No matter how hard you try, a melee boss will never be a threat. A melee boss is like a tank that can be bodyblocked, sentry blocked, milked, airblasted, aggroed away, etc.
Not only that, they also are not very effective, due to the absence of AOE, very low range and a very low DPS. Due to its name "Gaterusher”, I assume it had the purpose of capping the gate. However, it couldn't do it due to how badly it can be memed on by players. Add a bit more of HP, DMG, speed, or anything else to make it more threatening.
The final subwave with Gpyros and Gdemos felt like an HP wall. They simply served as a damage sponge, fighting back weakly.

Reduce the common Rapid Fire Demo HP to 175. There is no reason for them to have 650 HP. Common demos are pretty annoying on their own, due to the fact that even if you dodge them, they can still kill you because of the rollers.
Now add to that the fact that they never reload, spawn in bursts of 5 (I think) and have increased HP. Pretty annoying isn't it?
Another thing, Giant Penetrating Bowmen. The Bowmen is a bot that was never meant to be a giant. The issue with Bowman is the fact that they launch a singular projectile that has no AOE whatsoever, deals a low damage, and is easily dodgeable.
Giants are bots that are supposed to drag the attention of the team towards them, due to the amount of trolling they're able to do if ignored. Unfortunately, those bowmen simply served as damage sponges.
The main concern of the wave were your GBatts that were using The Original instead of regular Rocket Launcher (charged soldier stats). That wouldn't be an issue if they had the purpose of supporting other dreadful Giants. However, it didn't seem to be the case in the wave.
Another issue relates to the ending of the wave. When the gate was capped, it caused the GConches spawn separate from the Gheavies. Make your burst conches WFAD to fix this.
GG go next. Mission scrapped.

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