[MISSION] Nox - Detritus

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Mission Name: Detritus
Map: Mannworks Nox
Difficulty: Advanced
(This post was last modified: 01-17-2023, 03:45 AM by Yoovy. Edit Reason: Updated Chosen Map )
Version 1: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QOdXcIy...share_link
Judges present: Nuq, Damno, Oddschool

Engi (Nuq)
Pyro (Oddschool)
Soldier (Damno)

This mission is way too hard for an advanced, but isn't in expert range, all across the board, earlier waves especially. It would certainly fare better with a cash infusion before any specific non-egregious difficulty spikes can be addressed.
Add $300 starting.
*** Please test this mission with testers (that aren't pro-grade judges a-la M1/Package) until it doesn't edge on higher end of difficulty. ***

W1: Add $200+.
W2: Add $200+.
W3: Add $200+.
W4: Add $200+.
W5: Add $100+.
W6: Add $100+. Remove +25% damage bonus from Armored FaNs (and probably don't have them armored at all.
W7: Add $100+.
Version 2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QOdXcIy...share_link


-Did not increase starting cash to $1,500
-Removed funny no seeing buster icon

Wave 1:
-Decreased MaxActive Support Scouts from 6 -> 3
-Decreased MaxActive Support Soldiers from 6 -> 3
-Increased Payout by $200

Wave 2:
-Replaced both Giant Quick-Fix Medics with 3 Quick-Uber Medics each
-Decreased Minor League Scout Support WaitBeforeStarting 3 -> 0
-Decreased Heavies from 15 -> 12
-Increased Payout by $200

Wave 3:
-Decreased amount of Demomen from 40 -> 32
-Replaced Quick-Uber Medics that are on the Armored Big League Scouts with Regen Quick-Fix Medics

Wave 4:
-Halved the amount of Steel Gauntlet + Quick-Fix Shield Medic squads appear
-Increased Payout by $200

Wave 5:
-Dummied Tomislav Skill Level from Normal -> Easy
-Decreased Demoknights from 36 -> 30
-Decreased Samurai Warriors from 12 -> 6 and double their WaitBetweenSpawns Time
-Removed a Giant Shotgun Heavy and gave a Giant Quick-Fix Medic to the other one
-Increased Payout by $100

Wave 6:
-Removed AlwaysCrit off the Giant Rapid Fire Soldiers
-Replaced Giant Armored Force-a-Nature Scouts with Super Scouts
-Replaced Direct Hit Soldiers with Soldiers and increased their Total from 16 -> 24
-Replaced the entirety of the Brassbeast Heavy + Uber Medic subwave and made it 2 Giant Brassbeast Heavies with 1 Full-Duration Uber Medic per Giant instead
-Increased Payout by $100

Wave 7:
-Cut Subwave 2's and 3's Giant Rapid Fire Demomen from 10 -> 5
-Replaced Subwave 2's Giant Rapid Fire Demomen with Giant Rapid Fire Soldiers
-Increased Payout by $100
No strike!

Judges present:
Frahtcy aka Ronny McNutt gaming

Demo: https://eu-testing.moonlight.tf:27107/de...28.dem.zip

Wave 1: Replace bursts with regular soldiers.

Wave 2: Replace giant blasts with giant rapids since blast soldiers are not fun. Snip 4 bowmen from the end.

Wave 4: Add a 2nd tank somewhere.

Wave 5: Make giant medics pop. There's plenty of room for players to deal with them

Wave 6: Spawn giant medic squads a bit earlier. Also make them pop.
Nuh uh
Version 3: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QOdXcIy...share_link

Wave 1:
-Replaced Burst Fire Soldiers with Soldiers

Wave 2:
-Replaced Giant Blast Soldiers with Giant Rapid Fire Soldiers

Wave 6:
-Made GHeater GMedic Squads spawn Faster
Version 3.5: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QOdXcIy...share_link

Wave 1:
-Decreased Skill Level on Support Scouts from Normal -> Easy
Demo: https://eu-testing.moonlight.tf:27107/de...45.dem.zip

Strike 1

Team comp:
Sticky Demo

Overall: The mission suffers from very high cash and it doesnt have enough force to push. Early tanks are very weak too once more than 1 person is on them. 22 bot cap seems to be hit constantly due to high spam of commons and support making it very unfun. Map has very big issues that cannot really be fixed or addressed pop wise.

In other words, map, bot composition and balancing is done terribly making most of the waves unsalvageable.
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Took a little bit of liberty in reviewing the demo and doing a separate run with the same team composition. I'd like to put my two cents onto this.

Nevermind demo had a different file name for some reason???
Demo: https://testing.potato.tf/demos/mvm_mann...842574.zip
Quick note to the demo if you do check it yourself; we sucked cause of last minute arrangement (and we were tired lol)


- WaitForAllDead is heavily used on almost every subwave, causing some of them to just slog out and rip out some of the missions pacing into just exactly that.

- Map is very unfun to play around on, especially with bot compositions from the waves, on top of inconsistent difficulty and "accidental" moments from bots (primarily refererring to wave 5 Samurai subwave)

- TLDR; Bots are heavily spammed in swarms to force a push due to the immense payout the mission gives; ultimately making most waves same-y, if not a repetitive broken record at times. Would more or less recommend to concentrate the power of bots instead of forcing high maxactives and potential chances of it feeling more spammy than it is.


- Wave suffers from a lot of the ultra generous usage of WaitForAllDead. Everything turns into a massive halt once you include the fact that both giants and mainwave commons barely ever attempt to push players. Starting cash can overall triviliase it even more.

- First subwave has very little push overall. The buff on the soldiers in conjunction with the bots are poorly executed due to how easy it is to avoid them in general.

- Second subwave overall would only "push" because players can outright ignore the tank until the administrator announces that it's almost to the hatch, thus the inconsistent "push". Either path can make this subwave easy or easier (left path due to aoe damage spam, whether it being the bots are behind or in front of the tank.)

Additionally, Engineer being ran with $1200 can easily get rid of the tank without anyone really noticing it was there in the first place to begin with.


- Main pushforce of the first sub may only stem from the occasional pyros and the Rapids. Bowmen only exist as mere fodder for on the sub as a whole.

- The ubers didn't seem to do much even when they were popped. On top of the supporting robots also not doing as much with the GBurst + med combo. On the shorter end in terms of wavelength with 4 people.


- See the General note. Ultimately a sluggish wave with turtle pacing.

- Nitpick but first subwave is basically an inferior variant to the last subwave; only with bots that push harder and are supported better. Would consider revising the first subwave in one way or another.


- This is where commons begin and might be too over-relied. Engineer can more or less deal with them fairly efficiently (or any aoe class tbh). The alarming rate of 12 potential commons being out (not counting giants or mission support) at once will be annoying to fight.

- FaN scouts typically don't bring anything to the table pushing power wise, and they're almost fodder at times or at best a nuisance to displace you for a brief moment.


- Major nitpick on the knights/samurai subwave is that: Samurais can accidentally take shortcuts due to them autojumping and even charging in the opposite side of the bomb path; ultimately shortening the path and forcing bomb alarms super early if anyone is unfortunate enough to have that happen to them.

- Final subwave with Giant Medics on Mannworks is a very hit or miss thing due to the drop point from either bot spawn side. They will detach and straggle/struggle to keep up with their patient.

- Reoccurring theme -- with much like Wave 4, the final subwave tries very hard to hit the max bot cap (a potential of 16 support commons on the field during the final subwave, once again NOT including giants or mission support). Wave as a whole needs a massive revision in what it offers as it is also.

As for other parts of the wave; Tanks are paper, can be heavily disregarded until the announcer voice line kicks in (and it will basically die within a blink of an eye by that time).


- I feel like I'm repeating myself here with the massive bot swarms that the final subwaves are reliant on (despite being heavily countered by a sentry gun and/or any aoe type of damage).

Also another nitpick but, the fire subwave was already previously used elsewhere, but only to a bit of a more threatening degree.


- Tanks (while paper, still aids with the inclusion of: ), Giants + Giants with Giant Medic pairs. I don't think I would need to elaborate on that any further as to why this is very unfun for both inexperienced and experienced players alike. Ultimately screams "use uber/crit canteens now"

- If players fail to meet the dps check and get pushed to hatch, giants can stack on either tank behind them. So the second you kill the tanks you get jumpscared by 2 stacks of giants all at once to fight against.
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(This post was last modified: 12-24-2022, 07:51 PM by Mo.)

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